Interview: Dr. Apryl Steele

At the LGVMA retreat back in February, we were able to interview several amazing veterinarians.  We are pleased to present our interview with Dr. Apryl Steele.  

Dr. Apryl Steele the owner of an AAHA certified small animal practice in central Denver.  She is the past president of both the Colorado Veterinary Medical Association and the Animal Assistance Foundation, and she is a Director of PetAid Colorado.  Dr. Steele lives with her life partner, Kim, and her two dogs Reba and Mister.


We decided to start off with a video introduction.  

Where did you grow up? Where did you go to school (undergraduate and veterinary)? 
I was born and raised in Colorado.  I was in the veterinary corps during Desert Storm (Army), and then I completed my undergraduate work in microbiology at Colorado State University.  In 1997 I earned my Doctor of Veterinary Medicine from CSU (Go Rams).

Tell us about your job!  Did you always know you wanted to be a veterinarian, or what made you decide to pursue this career?  What made you pursue the specific field you’re in now?   
I am extremely lucky to have had a professional path that has  led me to be a practice owner.  Growing up I always wanted to be a veterinarian, and I wouldn't take no for an answer.  My family had absolutely no money to send me to college, and none of my relatives had ever graduated from college.  Yet, I never doubted that I would be a veterinarian.  I suspect much of this strong advocation for this career was that the animals in my life were the non-judgmental presences and I needed them.  While I had yet to realize that my sexual identity was different than the norm, I knew that the unconditional love that animals simply give to those who care for them was a necessary part of my life.  Being from the center of Denver, in my world animals were cats and dogs which is why I pursued small animal medicine.

From high school through graduation from veterinary school I worked as a technician assistant in a practice South of Denver.  After graduation I became an associate in that practice where I worked for two years.  Looking back, it probably would not have been a particularly accepting environment for a non-heterosexual woman, but since I had yet to figure out that I was not heterosexual I did not experience prejudice.  After two years of practice I was asked by a retiring veterinarian if I would consider buying her small holistic cat practice which she would finance for me.  This was a true gift, and although I was (and am) a traditional small animal practitioner, I took this oppportunity.  The first two years were a difficult transition as I was learning to run a practice, dealing with some very irritated clients who wanted homeopathy and soothing those who didn't want to see a dog at their veterinarian's office.  However, after a couple years the practice starting growing quickly and has become a 3.5 doctor AAHA certified small animal practice of high quality medicine in central Denver (we built a new building in 2004).

How do you identify in terms of the LGBTQ/Ally community?  How (if any) do you feel that your identity has affected your school, job, and living location choices/opportunities? 
I am a lesbian.  This realization came later in life, so it did not affect me at school.  As I noted above, I have been truly blessed because when I came to this realization I was a practice owner and in a supportive environment.  I have always desired to live in Denver which in my experience is gay friendly.  I have not allowed by sexual orientation to limit my choices, and I have been the president of both the Denver Area Veterinary Medical Association and the Colorado Veterinary Medical Association.

Do you have any words of advice to students, especially in terms of involvement in LGBT extracurricular activities and being out in the application process (whether that’s for externships, internships, or jobs)? 
You are role models and I encourage you to embrace that gift and that responsibility.  By expressing yourself honestly you are breaking stereotypes for many who have not had the pleasure to meet anyone with an alternative sexual identity.  You have a supportive network where you can find encouragement and understanding.  The leaders of Broad Spectrum are outstanding and they can help you provide a framework to create an inclusive support network in your school.  If you can find the courage to be "out" as you apply for internships, externships and jobs you will set yourself up to exist in a supportive environment.  If being out keeps you from obtaining a positition, then that position is one that would have likely had a significant negative effect on your self esteem.

Did you have any memorable LGBTQ mentors? 
Ralph Johnson, the executive director of the CVMA, has been an amazing role model for me.

What are your thoughts on the current climate for the LGBTQ community (e.g. with regards to our current status, rights, struggles). 
We are making progress, and although it never seems like enough it is happening faster now than ever before in history.  We have been screaming to be heard for decades, and now people are listening.  We are at a pivotal point of defining our message because what we promote now is how our society will view us.  Our agenda as the LGBT+ community has been defined by our greatest challenges, which in the past have included the AIDS epidemic, extreme discrimination, threats to our jobs and even to our lives.  While there are places in this country where these threats still exist, change is being made in many areas.  I believe our biggest challenge now is to educate those who are finally listening, and nurture them into being true advocates of our community.

What are your thoughts on the state of acceptance of the LGBTQ population within the veterinary field?  Have you ever had any positive or negative experiences? 
I feel very accepted in the veterinary community, from my colleagues on a local level to the President of the AVMA.  When attending the House of Delegates meetings there are obviously some very conservative members still in leadership positions, but they are losing credibility.

What is your favorite non-veterinary pastime? 
My favorite non-veterinary pastime is a tie between cycling and playing poker.

What are two random facts about you  - can be anything - doesn't have to be veterinary related (in fact it’s better if it’s not)? 
 My favorite meal is Popcorn with reggiano cheese and Chardonnay.

I once drove 32 hours with only a one hour break so I could skinny dip in the ocean.  That adventure was quickly ended when I noticed the construction workers on a pier.

What is your biggest vice? What sorts of things do you work on to improve yourself professionally and personally? 
My biggest vice is trying to fix everything for everyone and forgetting that that is neither within my capability nor is it my responsibility.  I continually challenge myself with leadership positions, participate on the boards of many non-profits where I find great role models, and I make my relationship with my partner a priority in my life.

What is your strength? How has it helped you get to where you are today? 
Tenacity (some say stubbornness), willingness, courage, insightfulness and kindness are my strengths and these traits have enabled me to develop a great community of similar people.  My tenacity  and courage enabled me to say "yes" when considering purchasing my practice.  Willingness and insightfullness have allowed me to attain leadership positions in several organizations which has led to my voice being heard on a greater level.  Kindness just makes my life easier.

What would you say to someone who is homophobic? Would you say anything at all? To a veterinarian, veterinary technician or veterinary student? 
I would ask them to explain of what they are afraid.  I have yet to hear a good answer.

Have you encountered discrimination? What experiences have you had that make you feel like the veterinary LGBTQ community is becoming more or less accepted? 
When I was married it was to a black man, and I did experience discrimination when travelling to some Southern states.   If I sense an uncomfortable situation when walking with my partner I can let go of her hand and the world sees us as friends.  This was not possible in an interracial relationship.  I do feel that the LGBTQ community is becoming more accepted as evidenced by state and national statues being passes allowing civil unions and gay marriage.   While there is still an "old guard"  I do believe that the veterinary LGBTQ community is ahead of the social changes (as most educated professions tend to be).

Interview: Dr. Daniel Edge

Daniel Edge, DVM, MBA is Vice President of the LGVMA and currently works as Senior Manager, Veterinary Liaisons and Medical Affairs for Abbott Animal Health. He is a graduate of Iowa State University and worked as an emergency room veterinarian in referral practice before joining veterinary industry in 2009.  Daniel and AJ, his partner of 10 years, currently live in Des Moines, IA but are looking forward to moving to the Chicago area this summer with their two boys, Jackson (7) and Peyton (2). Their family is rounded out with a long-haired Chihuahua, Gizmo, who has been with Daniel and AJ since shortly after they first met.

Thanks for agreeing to be interviewed, Dr. Edge!  Where did you grow up? Can you tell us a bit about where you went for your undergraduate and your veterinary education?  
I grew up in a very rural community outside of Clinton, NC.  I worked in tobacco and cucumber fields growing up in addition to turkey production and hatchery farms.  I went to undergrad at NC State University where I majored in Biochemistry and Chemistry.  Following graduation, I went to Iowa State University and completed my DVM in 2003.

Tell us about your job!  Did you always know you wanted to be a veterinarian, or what made you decide to pursue this career?  What made you pursue the specific field you’re in now?
I believe I'm one of those people who declared my intent to become a veterinarian at the age of 4.  I never considered any other job although I purposefully chose Biochemistry as an undergraduate degree in case I needed a back up plan to enter the pharmaceutical world.  I always had an affinity for animals, cats especially growing up, and felt that I wanted to contribute to their well being.  I first entered the veterinary workforce as an emergency veterinarian in a referral practice in NC.  I spent about 6 years there but became a little burned out on the hours/weekends.  It was also around that time that my partner and I were trying to start a family through adoption, so I wanted to have a more "regular" schedule and reliable benefits. It was at that time that I found a job with Abbott Animal Health as a Veterinary Liaison, or field technical veterinarian.  I have worked my way up since that first job and now am the Senior Manager for Veterinary Liaisons and Medical Affairs.  I enjoy the job, because while I am not directly working with animals any longer, I have much influence in improving how people practice and in bringing quality products to market that are specific to veterinary medicine.

How do you identify in terms of the LGBTQ/Ally community?  How (if any) do you feel that your identity has affected your school, job, and living location choices/opportunities?
I identify as gay.  When younger, before veterinary school, I was closeted and fearful for how life would be out of the closet due to my being in a very conservative and rural environment.  Undergraduate school was a much better situation, but still one in which I was not quite comfortable being myself so it was early in veterinary medical school that I completely outed myself to my family and friends.  As far as work goes, I have been very fortunate that I have never had a direct issue related my sexuality in the workplace.  My experience in private practice was very welcoming to myself and my partner.  In fact, the referral practice I was in had several other LGBT employees throughout all of its' locations.  In my current corporate setting, sexual orientation is recognized as a protected part of diversity.  I work in a very diverse workplace in terms of culture, religion, ethnicity, and political affiliation.  The corporation provides domestic partnership benefits and even provided assistance for one of our adoptions which is a phenomenal benefit that is rare to come by.  There is an active network of LGBT employees in which I have participated.  In the end, I don't believe my sexuality has ever held me back or been an obstacle to employment or promotion within my career thus far.  While I am very happy with this, I also recognize that this is not true for all people like me and I am very grateful for the positive experiences I have had thus far.

Do you have any words of advice to students, especially in terms of involvement in LGBT extracurricular activities and being out in the application process (whether that’s for externships, internships, or jobs)?
I believe in the philosophy that honesty is the best policy.  My involvement with LGVMA is included on my resume, LinkedIn, Facebook, and any other documentation of my extracurricular and career work.  When interviewing at all of my jobs (current and past) I did not always proactively address my sexuality and my employers were wise in not asking any personal information which would be a violation of state and federal anti-discrimination laws.  However, if comfortable with the interviewer, I did drop information about my children and spouse using pronouns that would confirm my relationship.  In my current corporate job, I had also researched the company in advance to assess their stance on anti-discriminatory practices and learned of their inclusion of domestic partnerships in benefits.  Due to that information, I felt comfortable outing myself during the interview process.  This was a personal choice for me, and not necessarily one that everyone should take.

Did you have any memorable LGBTQ mentors?
I did not have any specific LGBTQ mentors in either undergrad or veterinary school, but rather friends that offered support when I needed it.  After veterinary school, I did learn that there were allies within the faculty which I wish I had known at the time as I would have reached out to them not necessarily for support, but for appreciation of their existence.

What are your thoughts on the current climate for the LGBTQ community (e.g. with regards to our current status, rights, struggles).
I am very fortunate to be on the forefront of the waves of progression for LBGTQ rights.  My partner and I married in Iowa in 2009 and have been blessed with two beautiful children through adoption.  We moved back to Iowa in 2010 to ensure that both of our names would be included on their re-issued birth certificates.  I sense that we are on a great momentum here in the US that is swinging towards inclusion of all persons of LBGTQ backgrounds for equal rights.  With the Supreme Court taking on cases this spring regarding our rights, I am hopeful that change is coming.

What are your thoughts on the state of acceptance of the LGBTQ population within the veterinary field?  Have you ever had any positive or negative experiences?
I think that like any subset of the workforce, there are pockets of progression and conservatism within our profession.  I have been fortunate to always have had positive experiences within the veterinary community when it interacted with my sexuality whether through employers, co-workers, or affiliate organizations such as LGVMA.  I believe there is much more work to be done, however.  Part of this, I believe, has to do with the gender and generational shifts that our profession is experiencing.  It seems that many younger generations are much more open and accepting to persons of LGBT backgrounds, likely because they are more aware of their existence in friendships or family relationships.  As our older, more conservative colleagues retire and move out of ownership and leadership roles, I believe the state of acceptance within the community will expand.

What is your favorite non-veterinary pastime?
I am a closeted crafter :)  I love knitting and quilting, and while an expert at neither, I do enjoy the relaxation it brings me.  I've quilted mostly baby blankets for friends and my own children.  A knitted scarf tends to take me a year but I eventually finish it.  Beyond crafting, I love to sit down with a really good book and lose myself for a few hours.

What are two random facts about you  - can be anything - doesn't have to be veterinary related, in fact it’s better if it’s not?
I was named for a Biblical figure, although I find my personal beliefs more distanced from organized religion the older I get.  I tend to obsess over music for weeks at a time...my current obsession is Of Monsters and Men.  Other recent obsessions have included Greg Laswell and Elbow. I highly recommend giving them all a listen :)

What is your biggest vice? What sorts of things do you work on to improve yourself professionally and personally?
My biggest vice is procrastination although I tend to work well under pressure.  I try to organize myself effectively though many times it still comes down to juggling responsibilities.  I often equate my work schedule to the experiences i had in vet school--focus on what's coming up next, and squeeze in working on future obligations along the way where you can.

What is your strength? How has it helped you get to where you are today? 
I think one of my greatest strengths is my ability to work well with others.  My Enneagram status is "Peacemaker" so I tend to work to keep the flow going without much conflict or interruption.  As such I think it has helped me understand other people better and be more sensitive to their needs or points of view.  This all goes into being a team player which has been essential in every work environment I have been in professionally.

Anything you want to talk about that we didn’t ask?
Specific to adoption, I just want to let people know that while it is a long journey (and this is true for any couple, not just same-sex couples) it is a worthwhile experience.  My partner and I adopted our oldest child through the NC foster system.  He was 4 years old when he was placed with us and his adoption was finalized when he was five.  Our youngest we adopted at birth through an open adoption with the daughter of a  former co-worker of mine.  Both adoptions were positive experiences and we keep in contact with certain biological family members of each child which we feel is imperative to their well being and mental health as they grow up.  When I first went through the coming out process for myself and truly understanding what it meant to be gay, I foresaw a future by myself with no loved ones to take care of me in my old age and that was a very depressing image that I thought would be a reality.  Now, many years later, I live in a world where that doesn't have to be.  I always want to encourage everyone I know, gay or straight, that are considering starting families to look into adoption because it can happen.  It may not happen fast, or in the way in which you imagine, but it can happen.  And when it does you have exactly the family you were meant to have.

Thank you so much, Dr. Edge!

Interview with Dr. James Morrisey, DVM, DAVBP

We are very excited to present our interview with Dr. James Morrisey as the third interview in our on-going series.

Dr. Morrisey could you please introduce yourself?

I am currently a Senior Lecturer at Cornell University and the head of the Companion Exotic Animal Medicine Service. I teach about exotic pets and zoological species in the clinics, the class room and in the field. I also teach communication skills here at Cornell. In my free time I sing, dance and act as well as teach aerobics, cycle and eat out.

Dr. Morrisey with a young Howler monkey in Honduras

Hi Dr. Morrisey!  Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed.  Please introduce yourself.  Where did you grow up? Where did you go to school?

I grew up in Maryland outside of DC and Southern California, so consider myself bi-coastal! We moved to southern California when I was 11 so spent my formative teenage years in a nice, laid back beach community. I went to undergrad at the University of Maryland and majored in Zoology and Dance. I went to vet school at Cornell University. 

Tell us about your job.  Did you always know you wanted to be a wild life and zoo veterinarian?  What made you decide to pursue this career?

Yes, I grew up going to zoos and loving wildlife and exotic animals so I always wanted to work with them in some form. I found I liked science and medicine so becoming a zoo vet became my goal. During my internship at Kansas State I found I really enjoyed the client contact and working with exotic pets, so now work mostly with those species and only do zoo/wildlife work when I’m travelling in Central and South America.  

What is your most memorable experience in your career this far?     

I have had a lot of great experiences in my job and feel very lucky to do what I do. I get to travel around the world, teaching and working in a variety of places. I’ve had some great experiences working in Central and South America lately. We take students on trips to Honduras and I’ve worked with a wildlife refuge in Bolivia that’s been very exciting.

What are your thoughts on the state of acceptance of the LGBTQ population within the veterinary field and in zoo/wildlife medicine in particular?  Have you ever had any positive or negative experiences?

I have been fairly blessed in my life and rarely have had negative experiences relating my sexuality. I am a positive person by nature and try to approach any situation with a positive attitude and find that works very well for me. I’ve found the field of veterinary medicine to be very accepting of the LGBTQ population, which isn’t surprising since it tends to attract smart, kind and caring people.

Do you have any advice for negotiating your first job, especially with issues like partner benefits? 

My advice is to remain positive and accept yourself for who you are. If you act like  being gay or asking for partner benefits is an ‘unusual’ request then it may be construed that way, but if you act like that’s the most natural thing in the world, it tends to be less of an issue. It’s no different than asking about benefits for your spouse if you’re a heterosexual couple. 

Do you have any advice or a system for whom to come out to in the work setting?

Again, I think accepting yourself for who you are and realizing that it is simply one, very natural, part of what makes you the unique person you are will go a long way towards making it a non-issue. I think we get so stressed out and worked up in our minds about how to tell people but it’s really no different than telling people you’re ethnicity or the color of your hair. It’s simply a part of the whole package that is you.  

Did you have any memorable LGBTQ mentors?

When I was in vet school, there were a few other students and faculty that were very helpful in getting me to accept my sexuality as another piece of the puzzle that makes me unique. Tom Graves and Larry Carbone were so easy going and accepting and just said “oh hi, you’re gay, cool, now let’s talk about this other cool thing..” it was really great to just be accepted and then treated like a friend. 

What are your thoughts on the current climate for the LGBTQ community (e.g. with upcoming presidential elections, our current struggles for marriage equality, etc.)?

I think we are making progress slowly and steadily, which is the best way to go. Not forcing issues but not dropping them either. The best thing that each of us can do is just be a good person and open about our sexuality. It’s much harder for people to oppose and dislike that which they don’t know, so make friends in all areas of life especially those people that are very different from you. Treat them with the respect and openness with which you would like to be treated.  I think that sends a powerful message.

What is your favorite non-veterinary pastime?

I’m an avid biker. I love to do multiple day, long distance rides for charities, it’s a great feeling to be working with people towards a common goal.  I also love watching cheesy sci-fi and horror movies

Anything else you’d like to say?

Stay positive, stay fit and love what you do!

Thank you so much!

Outernships and Residencies: On being “Out” for the VIRMP

As many fourth-year veterinary students and interns are (uncomfortably) aware, tomorrow, December 3rd, is the deadline for application to the Veterinary Internship and Residency Matching Program sponsored by the American Association of Veterinary Clinicians.  For the unacquainted, the program allows those desiring of an internship or residency to apply and rank programs, and a centralized VIRMP computer program is able to match student rankings of programs with program rankings of students to ensure the best fit for both parties.   The program opens from Mid-October through early-December and often signals a stressful time of statement writing, CV modifying, reference seeking, form filling, and careful contemplation into one’s future.

The VIRMP Homepage, a sight/site familiar to many

When Broad Spectrum Veterinary Student Association was founded, many students sought to address the queer and age-old question of whether or not to be open about one’s orientation in various applications, whether for vet school itself, or for internships, residencies, and jobs.  As one can see from this discriminatory remark from an established veterinarian,  sometimes it’s just not safe to be out in the veterinary profession, and unfortunately, being out can sometimes cost you the spot, the prospective job, or your current job.  However, through our interview series with veterinarians such as Dr. Larry Carbone  and Dr. Patrick Mahaney, we have received words of encouragement to stay true to who you are and to not shy away from listing leadership accomplishments in applications.

Seeing that many of us are currently undergoing or will be planning on going through the VIRMP process, we decided it would be helpful to talk to current out interns and residents about their experiences.  Read on for their experiences below, and feel free to participate by emailing us at broadspectrumoutreach@gmail.com.  See the end of the post for more details on participating.

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Name: Scott Joudrey  
What veterinary school did you attend?  When did you graduate?  Were you out while in veterinary school?
Atlantic Veterinary College. 2011.  I was out the whole time.        
In what program are you currently an intern/resident?
Surgical Intern
What types of internships/residencies were you looking at (e.g. private vs academic)?  Why?
I am more interested in academia, as I enjoy teaching.
How are you currently feeling about your internship/residency?          
Surgery is a hard residency to get it seems. There is a lot of competition and many people have to do more than one internship and also fellowships. I am hopeful for matching this year though.    
Did state and local laws regarding non-discrimination play any role in deciding where to apply or where to go?   
No.    
Were you out during the application process?  Why or why not?          
I didn't put "I'm gay" on a banner and send it to them, no. During my visit to the clinic I did my general internship at, I didn't hide it and people know I was gay before offering me that internship.
Have you felt that being out or coming out has had any effect on how you are treated or how you are able to function in the clinic?        
Sometimes I wonder of male students feel uncomfortable around me, just because they don't know how to act around me. For the most part I think people just see me as me, who just happens to like guys. Gay jokes happen now and then, but I personally welcome them as they are always in a friendly way.    
Are there other out veterinarians at your clinic?            
Yes    
Do you have any tips or recommendation for those currently applying? 
Just be yourself. Don't feel like you have to advertise your sexuality, but also don't feel like you should hide it.                                          

***

Name: Jeffrey Barnet
What veterinary school did you attend?  When did you graduate? Were you out while in veterinary school?    
University of Pennsylvania, graduated in 2010, was out 100% of the time          
In what program are you currently an intern/resident?
Surgical specialty internship at University of Pennsylvania.  Previously a surgical intern at VCA Alameda East Veterinary Hospital (Denver, CO) and rotating intern at VCA Veterinary Referral Associates (Gaithersburg, MD).  
What types of internships/residencies were you looking at (e.g. private vs academic)?  Why?
Specifically was looking at academic residencies in surgery, although also looked at private practice ones as well.  Fell into my first and second surgical internships after I did not match for a residency.
How are you currently feeling about your internship/residency?          
Excellent internship to be out of the closet - very comfortable and accepting environment.  If you are 100% interested and committed to obtaining a surgical residency and have good patience, then this is an excellent choice.  Plenty of time to perform research, good access to faculty, little primary case responsibility.      
Did state and local laws regarding non-discrimination play any role in deciding where to apply or where to go?   
No.    
Were you out during the application process?  Why or why not?          
Yes I was.  It was a conscious decision to place my membership in the LGVMA in my resume for residencies.  I have no interest in attending a program that is not fully accepting of who I am.  Particularly during your internship/residency (for better or for worse) your program ends up also becoming your family/social life, and so it is important to take into account that you can socialize and be open with these individuals day in/day out.          
Have you felt that being out or coming out has had any effect on how you are treated or how you are able to function in the clinic?        
No.  It very uncommonly comes up, and those that bring it up do so in a natural and open manner.
Are there other out veterinarians at your clinic?            
Yes - both faculty members and residents (and students too).  

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Name: Shalini Latchman            
What veterinary school did you attend?  When did you graduate?  Were you out while in veterinary school?  
Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine, graduated 2012, yes I was out while in vet school.
In what program are you currently an intern/resident?
I am an intern at BluePearl Minnesota
What types of internships/residencies were you looking at (e.g. private vs academic)?  Why?
Private- wanted more real-life experience outside of academics          
How are you currently feeling about your internship/residency?          
Not great- it has a lot lacking as for as hands-on experience is concerned.  I would recommend an academic internship from now on.          
Did state and local laws regarding non-discrimination play any role in deciding where to apply or where to go?   
No- but I knew Minnesota's LGBT policies- I grew up here.      
Were you out during the application process?  Why or why not?          
Yup- by officership for Homophiliacs is on my resume- it's a leadership position in diversity- I think it matters to be honest and proud of your affiliations
Have you felt that being out or coming out has had any effect on how you are treated or how you are able to function in the clinic? 
Not really- there are several other out clinicians and techs at this clinic
Do you have any tips or recommendation for those currently applying? 
From gathering information from fellow classmates, I recommend academic internships for those interested in residencies and jobs for those who are not- don't waste your time in a private practice internship- find a mentor at a job that values your time and is invested in you as a person and veterinarian

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Name: Brendan            
What veterinary school did you attend?  When did you graduate?  Were you out while in veterinary school?
Cornell, 2009, Yes I was out.    
In what program are you currently an intern/resident?
Resident at Cornell
What types of internships/residencies were you looking at (e.g. private vs academic)?  Why?
I was willing to entertain private or academic since my specialty is so rare that the number of programs is limiting.        
How are you currently feeling about your internship/residency?          
Good- almost done...
Did state and local laws regarding non-discrimination play any role in deciding where to apply or where to go?   
No.  However, I did more strongly consider regions that I thought would be more receptive of the LGBTQ community.
Were you out during the application process?  Why or why not?          
Yes- I'm in a long term relationship and have no intention of hiding that.  While not a defining characteristic of me as a person, it's something that was bound to come out eventually.  The areas of the country where I thought I might have a harder time (Indiana, Texas) I asked current interns what their perception of the working environment was with regard to LGBTQ issues.  The internship I chose was in a gay friendly area of Florida.  I came out in the first 3 weeks of working there and did not get any negative response.  My being out also helped the next intern feel more comfortable choosing the position after seeing how well received I was at the hospital.
Did you find it difficult to come out?
I did not find it difficult- just dropped in conversation when it felt right.  Everyone knew I was gay when I arrived at my residency since I was dating one of the other residents.            
Have you felt that being out or coming out has had any effect on how you are treated or how you are able to function in the clinic?
No- I work in a liberal supportive environment.            
Are there other out veterinarians at your clinic?            
Yes    
Do you have any tips or recommendation for those currently applying? 
Be honest but know your audience.  Some people are accepting but don't want sexuality thrown in their faces.  I've learned to have a thick skin and not take things too seriously.                                                                                                            

***

As you can see, our post features interns and residents from both private practice and academia.  We received many responses from surgery interns.  If you identify on the LGBT+ spectrum, are a current or recent intern or resident, and would like to participate, please do so by emailing us at broadspectrumoutreach@gmail.com to answer any of the following questions with which you feel comfortable answering:

1. What is your name?  (You can be as anonymous as you want (e.g. Full name, First name only, "Anonymous Intern # x" etc.)
2. What veterinary school did you attend?  Were you out during veterinary school?  When did you graduate?
3. What program are you currently in?  (This can be as specific as you want it to be: e.g. Internship at _, or less specific like: Academic/Private Practice Rotating Internship etc.)
4. What types of internships were you looking at (e.g. private vs academic)?  Why?
5. How are you currently feeling about your internship?
6. Did state and local laws regarding non-discrimination play any role in deciding where to apply or where to go?
7. Were you out during the application process?  Why or why not?
8. If you were not out during the application process, did you find it difficult to come out?  How did you come out?
9. Have you felt coming out has had any effect on how you are treated or how you’re able to function in clinic?
10. Are there other out veterinarians at your clinic?
11. Do you have any tips or recommendation for those currently applying?  Anything you wish you could have done?

Thank you to the interns and residents who participated!

BSVSA in The Vet Gazette

On November 9th, The Vet Gazette published Sonia Fang's response to Dr. Larry Fisher's letter in DVMNewsMagazine.  We are including it here.  See our previous post for other student reactions, and be sure to go to the link to add your comments!



Support for Discrimination and Marginalization? Not Surprising
Friday, November 9, 2012 at 06:00AM

Op Ed
Sonia Fang, Western University


On March 14, dvm360.com posted an article entitled “Minority students report strong support from veterinary schools, but racism and sexism remain, study says”.  The article provided preliminary results from the [American] Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges (AAVMC) climate study conducted by Lisa Greenhill (Associate Executive Director for Institutional Research and Diversity at the AAVMC).  Some of the results included that one in five female veterinary students reported hearing sexist language at their school, and LGBT students reported they did not have a faculty or staff member to confide in at higher rates than those students who did not identify as LGBT.  In response to the article, DVM NewsMagazine published a letter from Dr. Larry Fisher of Topeka, Kansas.

I was disappointed and disturbed by the letter printed in DVM NewsMagazine.  On a purely factual level, the statements leveled against LGBT students are not founded in current historical analysis, and the myth that homosexuality has lead to society’s decline has been debunked repeatedly.[1]  Not to mention, even if there were civilizations for which an increase in homosexual activity coincided with a society’s purported decline, there would still be the classic issue of confusing correlation with causation, a definite and basic no-no in evidence-based research.  There isn’t evidence for homosexuality correlating with the destruction of civilizations, much less any research performed demonstrating its causation.

Regardless of the factual inaccuracies, I was taken aback because the printing of this letter was, in itself, telling of the problems that we as LGBT veterinary students face on a systemic level.  LGBT students have to contend with knowing that established veterinarians, editors of professional magazines, professors, faculty, staff, and potential employers are capable of possessing the same opinions as those that were printed.  There is not just a difference of opinion here, but a difference in the level of power and the level of outreach a student has in comparison to established veterinarians and editors of professional magazines.  As LGBT people, we know very well that “different values will always elicit different reactions.”   For example, I can be of the opinion that gay people deserve to be treated as equal members of society.  Anyone else is free to hold the opinion that gay people do not deserve to be treated as equal members of society.  The problem is that while we are both free and able to hold differing opinions, LGBT people are the ones to suffer when power dynamics are at play, and when a differing opinion becomes coded as discrimination into our institutions and the law.  For example, as of 2011, only 8 veterinary schools in the US, Canada, and the Caribbean explicitly protected students from being discriminated on the basis of their sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender expression.[2]  In 29 states, veterinarians can be fired just for being LGBT.[3]  For example, in Kansas, an executive order bans employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, but only in public employment.[4]  So for employees of private veterinary clinics in Kansas, one can be fired for being LGBT and have it be completely condoned by state law.

These things have weighed heavily on my mind throughout my education, but weigh heavily especially now in my final year of school.  I would love to live and work in a world where only my qualities as a capable, competent, and caring veterinarian play into my ability to be employed, but it is apparent that there are more forces at work.  I live, day in and day out, with the understanding that I can be fired just for being who I am.  I live, day in and day out, with the knowledge that there are veterinarians out there who would gladly attribute my existence to the fall of modern-day society.  I live, day in and day out, with the uncertainty of knowing when I’ll be treated as a full member of society.  Science has shown that living with these burdens of discrimination negatively impact LGBT people, and that an environment of anti-LGBT stigma, prejudice, and discrimination results in higher rates of stress, alienation, depression, and mental health problems.[5],[6],[7],[8],[9]  In addition, research has shown that those who are not “out” experience more adverse effects than those who are.[10],[11]  

These are the very reasons that groups like the LGVMA and Broad Spectrum Veterinary Student Association are important, and these are the very reasons that support for LGBT students is critical.  I am disappointed and disturbed that this inaccurate and discriminatory statement was found to be fit for publication in DVM NewsMagazine, in the very face of an article referencing lack of support for LGBT students.  I am glad, however, that the response was published because it gives LGBT students and allies an idea of how much more progress needs to be made.  I am grateful that student publications like The Vet Gazette provide a platform for advancing the dialogue.

Here are some more helpful articles for debunking gay myths:
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-top-five-most-common-antigay-arguments-debunked
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths
http://www.residential-life.unh.edu/diversity/15questions.pdf
http://scholar.valpo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2224&context=vulr

[1] Lesbian Resource Center, YWCA of University of Washington, Seattle.  “Beyond Tolerance: Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals on Campus.”  Accessed 12 July 2012.  < www.residential-life.unh.edu/diversity/15questions.pdf>
[2] Fang, Sonia.  “How LGBT-friendly is your veterinary school?”  Broad Spectrum Veterinary Student Association.  Accessed 9 Sept 2012.  < http://broadspectrumvsa.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-lgbt-friendly-is-your-veterinary.html> 2 July 2011.
[3] Hunt, Jerome.  2012.  “A State-by-State Examination of Nondiscrimination Laws and Policies.”  Center for American Progress Action Fund.
[4] Ibid.
[5] Hatzenbuehler ML, McLaughlin KA, Keyes KM, Hasin DS.  2010.  “The Impact of Institutional Discrimination on Psychiatric Disorders in Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Populations: A Prospective Study.”  American Journal of Public Health 100(3): 452-459.
[6] Meyer IH.  2003.  “Prejudice, Social Stress, and Mental Health in Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Populations: Conceptual Issues and Research Evidence.”  Psychological Bulletin 129(5):674-679.
[7] King M, Semlyen J, See Tai S, Killaspy H, Osborn D, Popelyuk D, Nazareth I.  2008.  “A systematic review of mental disorder, suicide, and deliberate self harm in lesbian, gay and bisexual people.”  BMC Psychiatry 8(70).  < http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/8/70>
[8] Hatzenbuehler ML, Nolen-Hoeksema S, Dovidio J.  2009.  “How Does Stigma ‘Get Under the Skin’?” Psychological Science 20(10):1282-1289.
[9] Bogart LM, Wagner GJ, Galvan FH, Landrine H, Klein DJ, Sticklor LA.  2011.  “Perceived Discrimination and Mental Health Symptoms among Black Men with HIV.”  Cultur Divers Ethnic Minor Psychol 17(3): 295-302.
[10] Hatzenbuehler et al, 2009.
[11] Bogart et al, 2011.

For more posts by Sonia Fang, go here.

BSVSA Responds

"Support for Discrimination and Marginalization? Not Surprising."

On March 14, dvm360.com posted an article entitled “Minority students report strong support from veterinary schools, but racism and sexism remain, study says.”.  The article provided preliminary results from the Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges (AAVMC) climate study conducted by Lisa Greenhill (Associate Executive Director for Institutional Research and Diversity at the AAVMC).  We had written about the preliminary responses here.  Some of the results included that one in five female veterinary students reported hearing sexist language at their school, and LGBT students reported they did not have a faculty or staff member to confide in at higher rates than those students who did not identify as LGBT.  In response to the article, DVM NewsMagazine published a letter from Dr. Larry Fisher of Topeka, Kansas.
 

In his letter, Dr. Fisher states:
Is support available for students surprising?

In the article “Minority students report strong support from veterinary schools, but racism and sexism remain, study says” from dvm360.com on March 14, it was mentioned that “while nearly 83 percent of veterinary students said there was a strong support system within their school, 35 percent said they did not have a faculty of [sic] staff member to confide in.  … The numbers are higher for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) students.”

Putting political correctness aside, it is an axiom that a house divided cannot stand.  Different values will always elicit different reactions.  Why are we surprised that those who have different values are looked upon differently?  The group cited has never flourished in a stable society but has always been visible in its decline.  Read history.  Now we wonder why we are declining as a culture?  Folks, fundamentals work.

--Larry Fisher, DVM
Topeka, Kan.

Students involved in Broad Spectrum Veterinary Student Association weighed in:
 

Amanda Fischer- Cornell University Class of 2014:
My initial reaction when I saw this editorial was extreme sadness.  Not because someone was expressing this viewpoint (it would be naive to think that people don’t have and express this view), but because it was published in a veterinary magazine.  I thought that this was highly inappropriate for publication in a professional magazine.  But hopefully some good can come from this in the form of an educated discussion among colleagues in our field. 

The title and the content of the editorial are an interesting contradiction.  Clearly Dr. Fisher is not surprised by a lack of mentorship and guidance for LGBT students in the veterinary community, seeing as he feels there should be none. I do agree with him on one point, that a house divided cannot stand.  Marginalizing colleagues and veterinary students is not going to further the development and future success of our profession.  I feel that his viewpoint implies  LGBT individuals in the profession are decreasing it’s value.  This is a poor attitude to take towards our profession, considering diverse and open work environments foster better collaboration and creativity.  If we are to move forward and continue to provide innovative ideas, then we all need to be more accepting of our colleagues.

I greatly appreciate the response from Dr. Gregory B Combs that was published by DVM NewsMagazine in response to Dr. Fisher’s editorial. As disheartening as that first editorial was, Dr. Combs response made me want to get up and cheer.  I hope that more members of our community agree with Dr. Combs views and welcome all veterinary students with open arms into this great profession.  I hope that students questioning the level of acceptance and inclusion in the veterinary profession can look at the LGVMA, Broad Spectrum, and responses like Dr. Combs and feel as hopeful as I do.

Nikki Wright - University of Pennsylvania Class of 2014
I am incredibly disappointed and saddened by Dr. Fisher’s letter. Although I originally questioned the magazine’s reasoning for publishing it, I have decided that I am thankful that they did, because it forces us as a professional community to confront this issue. If I could get to Kansas I would go and visit Dr. Fisher myself. Not in anger, but in a sincere effort to expose him and educate about the LGBTQ community. My heart goes out to anyone that Dr. Fisher has directly persecuted. There is no room in our society nor in our profession for such hatred. I hope that Dr. Fisher can one day discover the beauty in a life full of loving-kindness, acceptance, and personal growth through diversity.

Arturo Otamendi- Louisiana State University Class of 2014
    I agree with most of my colleagues in that I am not surprised that there are people in society, or even in the veterinary community, that think the way Dr. Fisher does. I have been raised in a part of the country where viewpoints like Dr. Fisher’s are commonplace. Originally, I was very upset that an article with this kind of bigotry would be published in a veterinary magazine that is read by very well educated people. But then I realized that if one person is saying this, then there are a multitude of others who have very similar thoughts. This is a great opportunity for organizations such as LGVMA and Broad Spectrum Veterinary Student Association to speak out and support LGBT rights and to teach the community what we have to offer to make this country a better place to live.
    Breaking down what Dr. Fisher stated, there are a few things I agree and disagree with. I agree with the fact that “a house divided cannot stand” However, this is the exact opposite of what members of the LGBT community are trying to do. We believe in “inclusion” of all people. This includes race, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, gender identity, etc. We see ourselves as an integral part of society and we in no way ask to be treated differently or special in any way. We want the same rights and privileges that everyone else has. It is actually not surprising at all that different values elicit different responses. I know there are people out there who do not agree with the LGBT lifestyle, but a veterinary teaching school is no place for that type of thinking.
    As for the statement that the LGBT community has never flourished in a stable society, but has always been seen in its decline, I ask where can he show any evidence of truth behind that statement. Homosexuality has been present in all cultures and societies since before the Roman times, and nowhere is there any solid evidence that this was a cause for the decline in their culture. The LGBT community has proven to be a very important part of this country and plays a big impact on the economy. In the veterinary community, LGBT individuals see their pets as their children, and they want the best veterinary care they can receive for their family member. How can a veterinarian provide them all that they need, while at the same time feeling like they are not appreciated or even resented for who they are. Dr. Fisher is blind to the fact that society is changing, and if he does not change with it, he will be left behind.
    I am very thankful for people like Dr. Fisher, because it pushes me to be more proactive and vocal about LGBT issues and rights. I feel that if we as LGBT veterinarians and veterinary students reach out and educate the community, we will see a big change in the next couple years and the comfort levels of veterinary students and veterinarians will increase tremendously.

Here are some more helpful articles for debunking gay myths:
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-top-five-most-common-antigay-arguments-debunked
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths
http://www.residential-life.unh.edu/diversity/15questions.pdf
http://scholar.valpo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2224&context=vulr